Conversation with Vedrana Skocic, co-founder and vice-president of Associazione Stella, since 2009 working to support migrant women access to the labour marketing in Italy.
by Juliana da Penha
From 1 January 2020, the female component represents 52.4% of foreigner’s adults in Italy (ISMU, an Italian organization on ethnic diversity studies).
“Mastering the host country’s language and accessing its labour market” are two critical steps for the inclusion of migrants, according to a report from the European Commission on the integration of migrant women. The report also found that migrant women have worse employment outcomes in comparison with migrant men and native-born women. One of the reasons is family and childcare obligations and difficulties to get their skills recognized. However, there are other challenges that migrant women face to access employment; a critical one is a structural racism.
Vedrana Skocic has years of practice as an intercultural mediator and broad experience in coordinating employability projects for migrant women. In this interview, she tells us a little about her personal experience with migration. She also speaks about the challenges and actions necessary to generate better opportunities for migrant women to access the labour market and to participate fully in Italian society.
A journey from ex-Yugoslavia to Italy
Vedrana is from Sibenik, Croatia “It’s a beautiful city located in the bay, created by a river before entering into the sea. It’s a small but amazing city” she described.
She arrived in Italy with her partner in 91 when the war in ex-Yugoslavia started “It was tough. At that moment we didn’t have a clear idea about what we were doing. We lost our jobs, and we’re convinced that everything would be sorted with politics, agreements and discussions. We never imagined that a war could start. We were shocked, but we did think that everything could be fixed today or tomorrow, and we would have our normal lives back again. We never imagined that the war could last five years, and it would create all the terror, the problems and that would destruct all the lives as happened. We didn’t leave to stay. We left to stay awhile abroad until things get sorted”.
Vedrana and her partner faced many difficulties, especially the lack of communication with all family members that remained in her country. Through some contacts, she arrived in Verona and started to work in the grape harvest.
Although she was a qualified teacher, the impossibility of recognition of this qualification by the Italian authorities resulted that she worked in low-skilled jobs for a while. She also worked as a cleaner, carer and babysitter.
At some point, she started a language and intercultural mediation training, and she began to support the communities of the ex- Yugoslavia. Later, Vedrana and other members of the ex-Yugoslavia communities found it necessary to help other people who had the same difficulties in the new country. So, they created an organization that today is Associazione Stella, since 2009 supporting migrant women in training and access to employment. They also organize cultural activities to promote intercultural dialogue.
Associazione Stella delivers employability training, assisting women to create and improve their CVs, upgrade their skills and competencies, job search, access to education and training opportunities. Moreover, they support migrant women to understand the complex and discriminatory labour market in Italy.
I have to say that it was a warm welcoming of people we met and, with some, we are friends until today. On the other hand, the welcoming of other people was cold, distant in a sense that you should adequate yourself or there is no place for you here.
Interview with Vedrana Skocic
When you arrived in Italy in 91, how was the country? What were your first impressions and how Italy welcome immigrants at that time?
Vedrana: We arrived in Verona because a friend of mine knew someone that knew someone who worked in the grape harvest. It was the only information we had. We didn’t know where to go or who to ask. We didn’t speak Italian e we discover soon that Italians didn’t speak English or Germany, Croatian or Bosnian. So, the communication barrier was intense. I knew the Italian way of living because I came quite often as a tourist when I was young. However, when I started to live in Italy, I realize that the idea I had was wrong (laugh).
We are all Mediterranean people, very warm, welcoming but also very rejecting. Some people said “go home” but too many people welcome us positively, humanly. At that time, there wasn’t an immigration centre, not even protocols. There were not many foreigners. Let’s say that we were the first big wave of migration in Italy. Before us, some individuals came because they married an Italian citizen, or they came to study. The only wave of immigration in Italy before us were the Albanians, but they had already in an association with Italy. I have to say that it was a warm welcoming of people we met and, with some, we are friends until today. On the other hand, the welcoming of other people was cold, distant in a sense that you should adequate yourself or there is no place for you here.
When you arrived, you were a qualified teacher, but you started to work in the grape harvest. You also worked as cleaner, carer and baby-sitter. Until today this is the reality of many migrant women who arrive in the new country with skills and qualifications but can’t use it. Why this happen and what should be done to change it?
Vedrana: The solution to this problem should come from the top because until the policies and the state don’t introduce the recognition of qualifications got abroad, I don’t see another way.
The recognition of qualifications is left under the responsibility of the migrant. They need to return to his/her country of origin, pay a considerable amount of money to the validation of documents, translated it to Italian, subjected to Italian Embassy or Council in their country of origin who will decide if these qualifications will be recognized or not. The majority of the skills are not recognized. This is a matter of the state and managed by policies. Only from there is possible to come to a solution. Many people I know, including me, went through this journey. It wasn’t easy and it was expensive. It cost economically and also is time-consuming. In the end, you don’t receive anything. Until they don’t introduce this possibility in policies coming from the top, if they don’t create guidelines we don’t have means of changing things. The only way is arriving here, start the school here, the university here so do again what we already had done.
You left the cleaning jobs after attending a training in intercultural and interlinguistic mediation. Then you started to work as a linguistic mediator helping people from ex-Yugoslavia with the Italian language. How do you evaluate the work of intercultural and interlinguistic mediator?
Vedrana: In my opinion, it’s an essential job, because with this activity, in the future people will know where they are, do good and feel included in the country where they live. I believe that the first approach can change a lot and can avoid many future problems for people: for children who go to school, for people who need to use social services, for people who need help in hospitals or any other health service. The interlinguistic and intercultural mediator is an indispensable and valuable resource. This mediator ensures that newly arrived migrants and operators of different services understand each other. They help people to understand each other, to accept each other as human beings with needs and also with the ability to help.
So if we start from the assumption that from the beginning people understand each other, understand where they are, know their rights and duties, how to access services, how to apply for school, how to use the hospital and any other kind of service we can already tell is half of the work. On the other hand, all the practitioners can do their work better, without misunderstandings. The mediator helps both sides and helps to improve people’s lives. The mediator makes those people who arrive feel welcomed because they put themselves on an equal footing with those they are helping.
I believe that the first approach can change a lot and can avoid many future problems for people: for children who go to school, for people who need to use social services, for people who need help in hospitals or any other health service.
After the experience you got all these years working with employability projects, what is the main challenge for migrant women to access the labour market in Italy?
Vedrana: Definitely, the first challenge is the language because without it is complicated. Not only in Italy, but I believe that around the world without knowing the local language is difficult the access to the job market and understand where you are. The second is the recognition of the qualifications. So, if people studied in their country of origin and have a diploma, if it is a high school, academic or any other training, it is essential to have these qualifications recognized.
If someone had studied in anywhere in the world, in Italy this person needs to do a different course or additional exams. So, we can’t completely deny the qualification of this person because we diminish the possibilities of an adequate job drastically. These people had studied, have skills and competencies, work experience recognized in other countries and all these are really important. We had seen women that were surgeons, university teachers, councillors, with high qualifications, and in Italy, they were working as carers or were looking for cleaning jobs. This is a loss for the women who are losing all these qualifications, skills and competencies and a loss for Italy, that have all these highly qualified people working as carers. This is a loss for both sides. In my opinion, this should be the first two things to tackle to facilitate access to the labour marketing for migrant women.
What are the main challenges to maintain a migrant women organization?
Vedrana: That’s a fair question (laugh). There are many barriers for women, and they are increasing with time. Some of the problem’s women face are that they need to perform different roles. They need to support the family, earn an income, need to care of their home, care of the children, care of elderly and all family members. Moreover, many women are involved in a community or voluntary work in their communities, churches or religious groups. So, for women, there are many challenges.
Besides, in the organization structural side, especially in the last years, is getting more difficult for small organizations to go forward. The structuration requests from funders are always increasing; you need to have an office space, a bank account, phone number, electronic signature. There are still further requests to the associations to participate in calls for proposals or to continue with their activities.
We had seen women that were surgeons, university teachers, councillors, with high qualifications and in Italy, they were working as carers or were looking for cleaning jobs. This is a loss for the women who are losing all these qualifications, skills and competencies and a loss for Italy, that have all these highly qualified people working as carers. This is a loss for both sides.
There is any government support to all these requests?
Vedrana: No, there isn’t support. Linked to each new grant or fund opportunity, new demands are outlined. Over time Associazione Stella has always been structured but working only with occasional projects, only with some small funding and grants that have a beginning, an end and you never know if there will be in the future, so it’s impossible to attend these requests.
One of the main barriers that migrant women face to find work is racism. What measures do you think is necessary to combat racism and prejudice in Italy?
Vedrana: This is a good question. It seems that almost everything is focused on negative news sales. Until we keep selling negative news, I think it will be challenging to change. Nobody speaks about migrant women positively and proactively. Nobody talks about how much migrants pay for the pension scheme of Italians that are retired. Nobody speaks about the positive things about being a migrant woman, about being a migrant, about being a person of color. All these arguments are always addressed negatively. Awareness-raising is needed to change the habits to see these things only as a problem. It became a habit to compare migrants with issues, and this is not true. The other aspect of migration as the migrant stories, nobody speaks.
Until we don’t face and speak about migration in an honest way, people will not be aware of. A lot of people don’t have a clear idea about immigration when we talk about it. They have only the newspapers heading and TV news that is all negative. The situation of women is getting worst, and if we speak about migrant women and women of color, the situation is getting even worst.
Until women will not be revalued as a person who creates life, with all the richness that a woman brings as a person, as a mother, as a friend, as a worker I think will be really difficult.
Until we keep distinguishing people based in their skin color, that is absurd, and I can’t accept, this will be difficult to change. Until we don’t see a human being as a human being, I think it will be tough. We need to be honest with ourselves and value people as people. If they are black or white, younger or elder, it doesn’t matter. There are good and bad people. That’s what matters for me.
Could you say how the Covid-19 pandemic affected Associazione Stella projects and the women who attended the services you provide?
Vedrana: In the last employability training we organized, I realized that some women didn’t have the data to access in their phone some information I was giving to them. So now, they are incommunicable. Our target is women with a lot of financial difficulties, so Internet data is their last thought. In our case, there is no sense to organize online activities for our women. We created a WhatsApp group and I wrote to this group but only a few women replied.
The employability program we offered for migrant women has been suspended before the lockdown because funders were asking things that we could not afford. We can’t do this work at a volunteer level (although we did many times) we need to employ paid staff because it is a lot of administrative work. Thinking about doing our work with women at a distance is really complicated because they need to speak about their work experience, this is a tiring process, women need time and space to talk about their work experience. Doing this at home with children is difficult. Now the schools are closed, even their children need to use the Internet to study at home, so the priority of Internet access is for their children.
Before the pandemic, the women were desperately looking for a job and finding it was tough. Now their situation is even more complicated. They’re at home without a job, with no income with their children and not knowing what to do. A lot of information is still in Italian, so women who do not speak Italian are still confused, without understanding what is happening.
They are isolated, with a bombardment of information from the media. Most of them are single mothers, with no family members and no friends around. Before the lockdown, at least they used to take the kids to school, they had somethings to do, now they’re locked up at home.
Until we keep distinguishing people based in their skin color, that is absurd, and I can’t accept, this will be difficult to change. Until we don’t see a human being as a human being, I think it will be tough. We need to be honest with ourselves and value people as people. If they are black or white, younger or elder, don’t matter. There are good and bad people. That’s what matters for me.
What message do you want to leave to women?
Vedrana: Each one of us is beautiful, splendid, already own everything, as long as we realize. We already have everything, really. They told us we don’t have anything, but that’s not true. We already have everything. We have all the skills, all the possibilities, all the strength and all the power. We have to put in place.